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War exploit
#1
I'm not really sure where to put this, so it goes here since i think its a bug. Leaving an established empire and creating a 0 territory empire to declare war without risk of repercussion I believe is a game exploit. Arykhan did this thing to attack Stormwood without putting Khanate at risk of retaliation. I believe this should be fixed either by policy or within the code.
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#2
I don't see leaving an empire to go to war on your own terms as a policy issue, but I agree there appears to be a game mechanics problem here. I missed the entire war, so I hope you'll excuse me as I collect more details. But let me try to address this anyway:

It seems like it would be reasonable to put a delay on war declarations from new empires to solve the immediate issue. If an empire couldn't declare war right away upon founding, they would at least need to put more planning and thought into it.

I'm not sure that it's a problem that 1-man empires can go to war with other empires, but I'll admit I'm not certain. Since there's also a concern of large empires bullying small ones, should we be limiting war to empires of similar size/development? I worry this would create an issue where empires can encroach upon others knowing the other empire can't go to war.

I'm certainly open to more input and other suggestions.
Khufu
EmpireMUD 2.0
Programmer, Owner, Lead Designer
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#3
I agree that its not best suited as a policy issue, however, the game mechanic seems difficult to fix. Putting a delay on war declaration doesn't really solve the problem. We knew this war was coming for days, someone could have left to form a single person empire a week ago.

Perhaps in order to attack another empire's buildings you should have to have buildings of your own, but more than just a hut. Let me just throw this out there and tell me what you think: Each empire declares a single building to be their "Stronghold". In order to attack other empire buildings you must have a Stronghold, when your own stronghold is destroyed the war ends and you lose. The victorious empire then automatically gets some % of the losing empire's wealth and resources. This might make wars even more dynamic since you would have to defend as well as attack.
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#4
(06-02-2015, 11:37 PM)Justin Wrote: Each empire declares a single building to be their "Stronghold". In order to attack other empire buildings you must have a Stronghold, when your own stronghold is destroyed the war ends and you lose. The victorious empire then automatically gets some % of the losing empire's wealth and resources. This might make wars even more dynamic since you would have to defend as well as attack.

Could work, but I feel that the one-man empires would just designate a stronghold in some ridiculously far-flung corner of the map and forget about it; it also feels kind of contrived, and I'm also not sure I like the idea of automatically handing over resources either -  I think there are situations where I might want to have a war without that (for example, the "friendly" war I suggested having with Knashtoren, but kinda forgot about).

I wonder if this problem could be solved partially by some kind of jail system (or the whole "use corpses to make totems that keep people out" idea), or even just an increased respawn penalty during wartime? It seems like the problem is a combination of the fact that there's no possibility of retaliation and there's nothing to really stop both empires from zerging each other as fast as they respawn.

Actually, you could disable respawning at towers of souls during wars, and end the war automatically when one side is completely dead (which would be a massive buff to resurrect in PvP). That might be too restrictive though.

Actually, as Mael's pointed out, the fact that you don't get anything for winning (or fighting in general) kind of sucks too. Maybe some kind of temporary fame bonus at the end of the war based on the amount of damage done, or temporary greatness buffs for kills? If it applied to the empire and wasn't transferable, this would also discourage people from using puppet empires to do all their fighting for them.

I don't have a good solution really, but I'll leave this here in case someone else has a similar but better idea.
The following is a dramatization of real events:
Quote:You raise your staff high as a bug crumples to the ground in agony and dies!
You have killed a bug! R.I.P.
You get the corpse of a bug.
You give the corpse of a bug to Khufu.
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#5
Whatever changes are made should also address that a one-man throwaway alt declaring war causes disproportionate damage to the defending empire. If someone is really pissed they can set up their client to keep the alt logged in and just walk away for a day, while the defenders have to deal with log-in stun against a non-credible threat. A respawn penalty during wartime would only add insult to injury.
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#6
There is 'guerilla tactics' where you attack the less defended, harder to reinforce areas of the opponent's empire, and then there is abusing game mechanics specifically to avoid your parent empire being at risk of repercussions. I have no complaint against the former, which the new patch does help encourage (it costs lightning stones to continually shuffle combat characters around), but defecting so that your empire won't be counter-attacked is clearly in the latter category.

More emphasis on the diplomatic side of empire management, such as declaring a war would trigger counter-declarations by allied empires, might be appropriate. Quantifying the progress of a war, where the engine assigns a war score for different war-related actions scaled by relative empire size might also be technically feasible.
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#7
You're not building anything, so the only thing in the empire inventory you would care about is lightning stones for faster travel via portals. You can still use your portals by allying your former empire, assuming there's no restrictions in place (I'm not aware of any, I think there's only the limit on pledging after a defection). You don't need your other facilities for war and the loss of one player's contribution to empire stats is only temporary.

An ally is more inclined to help you if they're already in a state of war, especially if it's low-ranking players online who are willing to fight but unable to perform a war declaration themselves. Furthermore, it'd also break any existing relationships the aggressor has with those allies, negating access to their portal network (potentially crucial for a war scenario) and breaking trade treaties (less important, but requires additional effort to reestablish and may discourage them from doing so in the future).
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#8
(06-03-2015, 11:16 AM)teyras Wrote: You're not building anything, so the only thing in the empire inventory you would care about is lightning stones for faster travel via portals. You can still use your portals by allying your former empire, assuming there's no restrictions in place (I'm not aware of any, I think there's only the limit on pledging after a defection). You don't need your other facilities for war and the loss of one player's contribution to empire stats is only temporary.

You can use your allies' portals, but you still require a portal mage in your own empire to do it.
Khufu
EmpireMUD 2.0
Programmer, Owner, Lead Designer
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#9
(06-03-2015, 12:15 PM)Khufu Wrote:
(06-03-2015, 11:16 AM)teyras Wrote: You're not building anything, so the only thing in the empire inventory you would care about is lightning stones for faster travel via portals. You can still use your portals by allying your former empire, assuming there's no restrictions in place (I'm not aware of any, I think there's only the limit on pledging after a defection). You don't need your other facilities for war and the loss of one player's contribution to empire stats is only temporary.

You can use your allies' portals, but you still require a portal mage in your own empire to do it.

True, but as they're also classed in High Sorcery to use Siege Ritual in hit and respawn tactics, it's not hard for them to pick up Portal Mage/Master as well. You're not going to see anyone using catapults in guerilla warfare, they require a massive amount of preparation and resources to use while Siege Ritual is 'free'.
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